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Included Series, Episode 6: Defining equality

The Included Podcast has been designed as a tool to bring the practice of inclusion into the forefront of how we do business.

In this episode, Egbe Adeoye, host of #TTARadio continues her conversation with Roy Gluckman, the founder of Cohesion Collective (CoCo), where they talk about how you can’t talk about talent without talking about employment, equity, and affirmative action. They discuss the idea that in South Africa, we come from a history where difference was used for purposes of segregation to the extent that recognising the reality that people are different is something often scoffed at. This is the reason why people would then believe that the best way to treat people is to see no differences and treat them in the same way.

However, they agree that treating everybody as if they were the same ignores the reality that historically, we have walked different journeys. We are not starting at the same place. Hence we are not the same, to begin with. Roy puts things into perspective when he says, “privilege and disadvantage transfer.”

Roy adds that it will not be through legislation on black economic empowerment and equality through which equality will be attained. He advises that an organisation is like a house whose roof trusses can be seen as the legislation. However, the foundation is an organisation’s ability to “take what is called, in law, the spirit of the legislation” and use it to create diversity, inclusion, and equality strategies.

The call to action: To ensure an environment of equality, treat different people differently in order to give them access to equal opportunities.

Listen to the podcast


  • Legislation is a blunt tool to drive change- 03:52
  • Employment equity and BEE bring up emotion- 05:25
  • The understanding of equality- 08:06
  • People are different – 09:05
  • Legislation as the trusses of the roof- 11:43
  • Legislation supporting change- 12:07
  • Countering the lack of opportunity claim- 13:04
  • Treating different people differently in order to have access to equal opportunities- 14:09
  • Transformation is not about lowering standards-16:21
  • Creation of support- 16:30
  • Empathy- 18:01
  • Solutions for inequality- 22:22
  • Using available tools- 25:55

Listen to Episode 1

Listen to Episode 2

Listen to Episode 3

Listen to Episode 4

Listen to Episode 5

Talent Talks Africa is proud to launch #TTA Radio. Our podcast radio station is all about #AfricaRising Our passion is for sharing the stories of innovation, challenge, triumph and becoming as organizations grapple with what #AfricanExcellence means today and for tomorrow. We are gathering stories from across Africa and look to becoming a leading curator of thought leadership in these 7 areas: /Future of Work/ Doing Business in Africa/ Authentic Leadership/ Wellbeing/ Hero Stories – real people making a real difference/ Learning and Innovation/ Diversity, Inclusion and Belonging.

Employee Experience Specialists.
Thought leadership on key talent and leadership issues
+27 824916463

Diversity & Inclusion Specialists
+27 81 336 7896

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